There's psychology, and then there's psychology...

[Reverend]

I've always tried to have faith in the human race, but the actions of people after both 9-11 and now the sniper incident cut deeply at me. Like most of you I am sure, I lost some people in 9-11, and my grandfather lives in th DC area. Both these actions weigh heavily on me.

But what sickens me are the people who apply spin to these situations to further their own gains. 9-11? It was a tragedy, and we made the appropriate responses to it, this does not give our president the green light to go finish daddy's private war. The DC sniper? We have no idea who this guy is, or if he isn't a she, and already video games, music, and Al Queda are being blamed. What if this is just a disgruntled everyman who lost his job because of corrupted CEO's and can't figure out any other way to lash back? We don't know what we're dealing with, but immediately different activist groups hop on to preach how their bill or opinion matters most.

I say fuck that.

[Doot]

My whole views on it:

I was appalled, stunned, enraged watching live what happened on September 11th. Does this mean I was surprised? Not on your life.

With a waning military, closing bases, lack of patriotism, absense of pride in our country, it surprised me not.

The US is looked at in many ways as the corrupt CEO with all the money and power that other countries feel defenseless towards. We got comfortable in that belief so much that we didn't have to concentrate on the nation anymore, we got to narrow our scopes and be concerned with only ourselves. This is evident how? How many of us complain about other drivers being disrespectful on the road and cutting you off? Why? Because the driver who cut you off is thinking about one person and one person only, themselves. We have customer service we complain about because someone doesn't feel like they get paid enough to do what they do. They feel they are owed more for flipping burgers, stocking shelves, ringing things up. A lot of times it's because they don't realize they really do have to earn their success. So we get so comfortable, and we get lazy, and we feel like everything should just fall in our laps. That's where we have to wake up.

Then we get some nut out there who is driven by his hatred towards the US to plan something so disgusting towards fellow man and it shook the world.

And the news, media, tv stations, all ran with it. If not such an attack were to make us feel defenseless for once, such an attack to actually shake the US up a little to remember why it is we are happy to be living in such a nation.

And you had your surges of younger people get pissed off enough and feel for their country enough to go and sign up for the armed forces. You get a swell of new recruits, until, that is, for everyday we flip on the television we hear about, we see the images, we are now forced to relive it almost in a way that we are forced to be patriotic. And it's waned again.

And now, we have internal problems... things that the media, general uneducated public can push off on a scapegoat. A scapegoat that cannot lash back, or one we are still "hunting" or one that makes us comfortable to place blame on which helps us sleep a little easier at night.

Frankly, this sniper pisses me off. Why? Because there are more effective ways to be heard. Not to be picking of children from the bushes or rooftops. Not to be killing innocent people who are living their lives under the main US rule of freedom and lack of fear.

I don't watch the news. I read them. Because I can discern from someones written word what I make of it, not what someone is "acting out" on the tv screen.

They need to find this guy. They need to beat his uneducated ass to a pulp. But they don't need to nab him and feed the public some mess just to force us to hate some more. There's enough of it floating around and frankly I think it all comes from within.

It all comes down to respect. And if parents aren't allowed to discipline their children without Johnny Government busting their balls because they spank their child (and I'm not talking the extreme of that one lady who punched her kid in the face) but a good old fashioned whooping, then we can look to be repeating breeding spiteful, selfish people and not go about raising a better generation, and hopefully a lifelong lasting impression that respect is key.


< /soapbox >

[Shino]

I agree with you Doot. Whole heartedly. And while I AM one of those people that gets pissed when someone doesn't wave at me when I let them in or doesn't use their turn signal, on that point I just think it should be done out of respect.

BUT

I think the government getting involved with the way parents disapline their kids needs to go. Granted, we can't let parents beat the shit out of their kids... but I'll be damned if someone tells me I can't spank my kids (when I have them that is :: ) OK When I was working at the game store in college, I can't tell you how many kids ... oh sorry ... brats came in and were so disrespectful to their parents it made ME sick. I have heard a kid call his mother a bitch. I have heard a kid beg his friends mother for her to buy him something and when she didn't he got pissed and threw a tantrum. Man if I acted even half as bad as this with my mother, I would have gotten the shit knocked out of me. And if I dared call my mother a bitch... I would have gotten slapped into next week... even if we were in public. And here we have kids getting away with this shit every day. It makes me sick.

[Reverend]

To be quite honest I really don't whole-heartedly believe in violence, and try to limit it wherever I go. I personally don't believe that spanking/hitting a child is the right way to parent.

However, yes, children desperately need to learn a little thing called respect. Don't ask me how you make kids realize that we are older and therefore not only know better but aren't endless supplies of money. Suprisingly enough, Mac Hall illustrates what might be wrong with the current crop of kids, lack of good cartoons. How many of us here watched he-man, transformers, gi-joe, Sesame Street, Mr. Rogers Neighborhood? Each one of those shows drilled a moral into us, even if it was nothing more than 25 minute toy comercial. What did children of the early to mid nineties have to learn from, Power Rangers?
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I feel old

[BWS-1]

I know how you feel Reverend, after all, I'll be turning 100 next year.



:baaaa:



Honostly, it's not WHAT you watch that will make the difference, it's your point of view. Some people said G.I. Joes were too violent ... dam, they thought me NOT to use drugs! or not to go swimming in a lake while being in a thunderstorm and stuff. Why? Because mostly my parents told me that what was showend on TV was not what had to be done, it was bad, and hitting killing people were bad things to do. If the parents don't tell there kids that important thing, and that there kids are always see there parents trowing shit at each other, they'll think it's the right way to live, and will see that it REALLY is the right way to live by trusting what they'll see on TV, violence. And they won't pay attention to the good morals at the end of every G.I. Joe episode -_-.

It's not the video games' fault, nor the music's fault ...


IT'S THE PARENTS' FAULT!!!!!! Want an even more obvious proof that it really IS the parents' fault? They blame everything else but THEM! The TIPICAL reaction when someone knows that it'i its fault is to blame all that surrounds the person, all but the person itself -_- ... jackasses.

[Reverend]

Better response by parents could be "It's a fair cop, but I blame it on society."

"I'd like to close this arrest with a prayer."

[Sperrit]

Alright. Here's what I think about the whole parents and kid issue that we seem to have found ourselves in. There are a number of things that are essentially difficult when talking about parents and kids, two especially: 1. The parent and 2. The kid. Now, I may be getting into a whole new mess by saying this but I think that when people are born we are born with a certain inclination towards what society considers right or towards waht society considers wrong. In short, some people are born good and some people are born bad. This isn't to say that people are not maleable in character, though. Even with these inclinations they are usually not very strong and they can be turned depending on the parent. I have met some people, though, that are bad even though they had parents that are as close to saintly as normal people get, and I have also met people who are kind and caring about everyone and everything even though their parents are the biggest a$$e$ on the planet, so it really depends. These exceptional situations, though, create a fluke in almost any kind of calculation regarding what it is that influences kids into being what they are today. Shino's example of the spoiled kids are very shocking and thought provoking, but we have to consider how much situations like that stick out in our minds and how situations where things are as we think they should be, i.e., when kids are behaving, tend to be forgotten quicky and have no impact on our perceptions. Now, of course, there are other factors involved when determining what influences the youth, and these are most often refered to as society and can include things like video games and television and newspapers and school and even *gasp!* the internet. These are all theorized to have an effect on children, and I'd have to say that I think that's true. I know for a fact that school enviroment effects kids and I happen to believe that the media effects kids, though to a lesser degree than personal one on one contact with people (friends, family, enemies) because emotion, the strongest influencer on children (in my opinion, but heck, this whole thing is my opinion!) comes across strongest in personal interaction. Therefore, I'd have to agree with BWS-1 that usually when parents try to blame society for the their children then they really are looking for a scape goat because they are the strongest influencer. Like I said earlier, though, there are acception, though I doubt that society could be blamed for that, either, but in situations where the inclination to do bad is that strong there is usually nothing to stop it. These are the people that end up doing terrible things over and over again and have no remorse. I've only met one of these types. That was enough for me. Another problem, as I see it, is that parents are handing over too much of their authority. We see parents dropping their kids off for day care in the morning, having someone pick them up and look after them and then they might see their kid an hour before the kid goes to sleep. The biggest influence in a kid's life has decided that other things are more important. This leaves the child strongly open to suggestion from other sources of influence, school, friends, and the media. In this sense this leaves the child very vunerable because these sources, for the most part, are designed to target older audiences with a more mature and knowledgable outlook of the world that can distinguish right action from wrong action and can understand the subtle nuances behind the actions the actions that are portrayed or are expected. Without a parent to prepare them for this, to tell them about the norms of society, they get a skewed perspective of the world from these less passionate influences. This can cause a break down of morality that results in things similar to Shino's example of the spoiled brats. Example: A kid sees a comedy sitcom show where one of the characters makes fun of another character because of a difference is race or sextual orientation or something of that nature. The adults that watch that laugh at it because they know that it's not right to do that and that it's not real and they can laugh at the absurdity of the situation. The child just hears laughter arising from this situation that is portrayed and without a social context provided by a parent can come to the assumption that it's right and even funny to make fun of people for said differences. In the end it usually all comes down to how dedicated the parents are to their children and how much time they are willing to spend on their children, because parents are a very big part of anyone's life and when they don't spend time with them they are essentially allowing society, in all it's harshness to raise these kids. Again, there are acceptions, but this is true in general.
Wow. If you read all of this I would give you lots of yummy food, cause this is one loooong post! Sorry about takin up so much space, but I really needed to say this. Thanks!

Join the Fun

[Reverend]

I think even another factor that you can add in is that likes seem to attract likes. Now I don't want to sound like I am bragging at all, but I've found that many of my friends act, think, and have parents with similar values as my family. Now I am going to assume that this can apply for all people (if I am wrong, please tell me) and so in that case if a child has had lousy upbringing, they are more likely to be around families and friends with that same personality.

Ergo, the culture you build around yourself becomes helpful or a hinderance. So you can have control over who you become.

[Shino]

Well I can't disagree with anything that has been said, except for the issue that sperrit brought up about the day care and things being "more important."

First I will say that I believe that it is true when people say there is an exception to ever rule. Maybe I was that exception.

Little personal history of Shino, aka Chris. My father passed away when I was 2 years old. Through out my life my mother pretty much raised me on her own. I'm an only child and in most situations, the only child becomes the spoiled brat. Not me. My mother had to provide for both of us with and didn't have a college degree to use to get an outstanding job. So until I was old enough, I did go to day care until she got off of work. This is not necessarily a bad thing. You just have to find the right one. When I was old enough to stay home by myself, I came home after school and waited on her. This was around 6th grade. I was not the best kid in middle school. I wasn't bad... I just talked too much. But that changed. When I was in 8th grade, I got a job. I started working when I was 13. I washed dishes at my cousins resturant. He gave me $50 a weekend. This is where the spoiled brat theory starts to come into play. When I turned 14, I started working at McDs. Most of the time, when I got paid, I would sign the check and give it to my mother b/c she needed the money. I worked there for a pretty good amount of time. Getting a job so early and having to save and share my money taught me a great deal of responsibilty. These kids that are handed everything they want b/c their parents have the finacial ability to hand them everything is damaging to the kids in my opinion. They never learn the responsibility of handling money or helping other people. I honestly believe that I matured more quickly the everyone else b/c I had to work to earn money to help my mother. Everything I wanted I had to buy myself. Makes you appreciate money a lot more. When I turned 16, I bought my own car. When I wrecked that, I bought another one. When I got to college, everything was still on me. No breaks just b/c school was hard. So that is where the Video Game store came in. Through the 5 years I was in college, I worked 50 hours a week trying to survive. I lived at home and continued to help my mother as much as I could. I got the Store Manager position at the store and stayed there until I finished college and got my first "career" position. To this day, I still do everything I can to help my mother.

The point is, yes society can have an affect. But it is the parents responsibility to monitor the portion of society that the child has access to. And to give the kids the "talks" they need to stay away from drugs, and gangs and all that other bullshit. Although society does have an affect, the responsiblity still falls back on mom and dad.

When I have kids... when they are old enough, they will get a job. When they are old enough to get a job, they will. If they want a car at 16, they will have to save money for it. I know how hard it is, so I may help, but only help. "Son... you want a playstation 4, get a job and buy it yourself, or wait for Christmas or your birthday.

Is this harsh? Maybe, but I know it works, because I went through it. And I have to say that I think my mother did a pretty good job. And I can only hope to be half the parent she was.

This is pretty long, and you guys may not have wanted to hear my life story, but I feel it was necessary to show my point. Thanx for reading!

And so are the thoughts of Shino!

[Reverend]

My respect for oyu Shino grows by leaps and bounds. While I will admit that I got lucky enough to come from a rather well off family, I did go to daycare, and my parents made sure to instill into me those oh so wonderful midwestern views of life that both of them came from. I guess you can say that I was receptive to it because I am originally from Ohio, and still have very close ties to my family out there.

My point about society was that you end up attracting people in your life with similar views of upbringing as you. I can almost guarentee that Doot, Sakura, Shino, Sciler, and Chibi Knight have very similar views on life as you based on how friendly you all are.

Please tell me if I am wrong though, that way I know where to go sticking my size thirteens.