Martial Arts Ettiquete

[Bob]

Am I wrong in thinking that there is a form of ettiquete in these things.
Whether your style is an efficient fighting style, a sport, a display, or a tradition... there is a certain ammount of mutal respect going on?

Would any of you out there go to a mixed style demo, and give me attitude while I'm sorting out kit for one of the demos, because you have a yellow belt and I'm not in my gear.

Would you stand on an open carry case full of swords when someone is right there, dealing with it?

Would you kick over an oiling kit, and act like its everyone elses fault that you wanted to practice where the kit is stored?

Would you act like that hardman ammongs other artists because you know your wooden board will break (when it has obvious lines scored in the back of it)?

Would you patronise one of the traiditional styles for not being showy enough, and then tell everyone how great this next showy style is while they flub techniques and cause another audience injury?

[Akanari]

...That's really, really annoying.

We get people like that in fencing. People who walk on swords (I admit, I do it accidently sometimes, the little buggers are hard to see, especially on a dark floor, but come on, I jump up, freak out, and shout apologies), coaches who scream commands at a fencer while they're fencing, and losers who a) smack their sword on the ground several ear-drum hurting times or b) don't even acknowledge you after a bout.

Meh, I dislike showy people. All that fluff just gets in the way, and is really, really aggravating to your opponent when they're trying to be serious. Ooo, and the disrespect for space is quite common too. They don't move out of your way when you're trying to come through with a mask, two swords, several body cords, some towels, and water bottles! I even quite nicely said "excuse me"...but no. T.T Where'd the chivalry go? (For those of you that still have it, you deserve many many praises)

Sorry. Yeah, there are people like that everywhere. These arts used to be disciplined. I was taught an etiquette. You could write a book with all the etiquette I have to know. But few people are taught it, maybe because we're getting more of a variety of uh, people in our sport now and little to none seem to care. Feh.

[BWS-1]

That's one of the reasons I don't train in dojos anymore. The other is cause, well, one of these guys ended up damaging my knee to the point where I was required to stop judo for ... I think I still have about 2 or 3 years to recover enough to start over again. But I'm not interested into going back anyway ... it's more ''brainwashing'' then martial art training. Where are the principles? where are the values? where IS the ettiquete? It's all about the pay-check they get, and even there, my sensei wasn't doing this as a living, it isn't something a 2nd dan black belt can do, only 5 judoka can afford teaching for a living in Quebec, and they are all 8-10th dan. But even this loses it's meaning for me, the dan system isn't what it used to be...

Meh. My only good dojo experience was, even if I wasn't quite used to it, the time I was invited to spare with Shino and the other students of the karate dojo he trains at. The other sparring sessions I have are more ''friendly street-fighting'', as much as it may lack style and beauty for it is rare that 2 people will end up being the practitioner of the same martial art, so much is learned from meach others mistakes, and each others successfull attacks, often people I fought were suprised and happy to to be able to enjoy, even just 30 seconds, of ''free'' sparring. Most of them came out of a dojo and/or were a bit tired of tournement confrontations. No mats, no rules, only one value; the respect of your opponent. And from that, unspoken ''rules'' are instinctivly respected.

No one's gonna jump at the eyes of anyone :p And if someone's wearing white ... I'll do my best not to trow him to the ground. Last time what happened was that my friend attempted to make me fall, but instead of resisting his pull, I moved in the same direction, changed position, and pulled as well. So as I fell, I pulled him with me and he ended up being trown to the ground, in the wet grass ... luckily it turned out to be just wet and not dirty!

And the funny thing is, I've met people that were close to what bob mentioned outside dojos, but for the most part, at least they behaved compared to the ones in dojos. Perhaps people allow themselves to be immature in a dojo and disrespectful because thy think they are untouchable? Because they think they're ''protected'' by the dojo or sensei around?

It could be part of the truth, afterall, out in the streets, if someone insists too much, who knows how it can end, but at the point where we mutually agree to have a ''friendly sparring session'', I know the other person also is aware of the possible consequences such fight could have if someone or the 2 people involved would act without maturity and respect. I can't say I've had the chance to spar often with people like this, I count them on my hand, but at least I have more freedom to choose then if I'm ''stuck'' with immature brats in a dojo for 10 weeks.

[Bob]

I don't mind showy styles, most of the time. The guys from one of the Kung Fu Clubs were happy to say that they were a show piece, and tell the other artist and kit crew as much (and how much work it does actually take to get those pieces right)... and they did lots of non-kung fu chinese display pieces.

But I can see how that would get to you if you're competing against them in a serious discipline.

Standing on swords, I can see happening, but 2 Ito(steel training katana) and a Shinken(a fully sharpened, usable katana), all in dark sheaths, with bright cords in a light grey 4ft rifle case... out of the through way. And not even a sorry, or glimer of understanding of what could of happened to £100s of kit, or their feet.

As for ettiquete... so much to remebmer that mostly matters to your club/stlye/art/discipline, but people shouldn't forget the basic 'please', 'thank you', 'excuse me's.

While its depressing that its spreading, its nice to know that people out there are noticing it too.

How is the fencing going over all, btw?

[Ming]

Ya know, I don't have any particular experience in these types of sports, but I can see where you're coming from. I think it's just a complete disregard for respect that society seems to be developing.

It's good to see that sportsmanship does still exist though...even if it's only with a few people.

[Silver Adept]

There should have been an etiquette code taught with all of the martial arts - they are supposed to help train your mind as well as your body. If people are ignoring that etiquette, that's a more serious problem that neding some help on mastering the forms.

[Bob]

BWS-1
I agree about the Dan system. With stories about The BK association, and people being stripped of their Dan Grades for stupid things. And things like people getting Dan grades for turning up a lot... and people refusing to grade because they train because they like it, not for a certificate.

The JKD club I uased to train with regularly focused on the practical application of violence. But they are all about being aware of how much other people can do to you, and trying to be aware of who else might join in while you're fighting, and that running is often a lot simpler than fighting your way out. We have a lot of fun their, with a sort of "don't do it if you don't want it done back" mentality early on, and a "you should have enough sense to only take it to the limit" mentality later. They don't go to public events any more, esp after the head of the club that annoyed me the most questioned the training and qualifications of the head of JKD.. and was proved wrong, then refused to back up his claim to qualification.

As for protected, yes they probably did feel that way. The clubs causing the problems had a lot of members (present and in total), so they get preferential treatment for the revenue they generate. A lot of the agro I got was from women, who in a few clubs in my area, never get hit, never get shouted at, they just get to jump around in low cut tops and get praised for not getting the form right. I used to laugh at my one of my old instructors jokes about "Special Kata"... I'm not sure he was joking
anymore.


Ming
I think you're right. I just wish that I knew how deep the obnoxious vein ran, and what could be done about it. I like the sig, btw. Where did you come up with it?


Silver Adept
I agree to an extent. Learning your code of etiquette is a good start, but understanding what the rituals and codes mean should be the goal, and have them be a show of the meaning rather than a routine.

We technically break etiquette all the time with the club I'm focused on. Partially because our instructor refuses to be called Sensei (Most people he's seen called Sensei are over twice his age, and learnt Iai-jitsu while it was still taught to Japanise officers... or half his age and demand the title from children. He's not that good, or that bad). Also for legal reasons (I would technically be expected to stab the person who trod on the shinken, for touching my instructors sword without permision... but I'd accept an appology.)

Plus, I don't think many of the codes carry over once you start having arts from different countries, or even continents starting to meet each other. At least not as much as a basic understanding that you all put time and effort into these arts, and anyone outside your club could be capable of anything, regardless of the colour of anything on them.

[Silver Adept]

Ah, I meant that type of deep, applied learning that you were thinking of - knowing the code and knowing the reasons for the code and knowing how to apply them as well. Sorry if it sounded like I meant people shouls only give lip service to their etiquette.

[Bob]

Silver :
Fair enough, I shouldn't have presumed you didn't.
I think its because I've seen etiquette used so often to mean following the routine by people who should know better... even tho I used the word myself in this very thread.
Sorry.

[reaper]

Sounds like Cobra Kia to me....where is Mr. Miyagi when ya need him