Gamrr Grrl

[RivaOni]

Shino will probably groan at this as I did this on Gamepulse a couple of days ago...............

General ideas about women in games (from a publisher/developer stand point really) is that women in the gaming industry should be seen and not heard. When they appear in games they often appear to indulge in many a mans fantasy, see Kasumi as an example. Not only is she being put into a pose involving a bikini, but her breasts are hugely out of proportion. So what? I hear you say. Well this shows a sexist way of thinking within the gaming industry, with Team Ninja playing a pretty big part in this, Each of the Dead or Alive titles features more and more scantily clad women sporting massive "norks" and they've even released a Volleyball game which is a blatant excuse for the CG characters to be placed in bikini's and jump around on the screen for some males pervisive entertainment.

And the ones that aren't displayed in this manner, are usually more or less useless and are in need of saving all the time, see Garnet from Final Fantasy IX. The only use she has is the ability to heal other characters and summon, but for a large portion of the game this is disabled when she suffers a huge ammount of emotional pain. Thus leaving her in a position within the game where she has to be saved.

The only gaming character that springs to mind that doesn't fit into either of these 2 stereotypes is Etna from Nippon-Ichi's Disgaea:Hour of Darkness. She doesnt have a enourmous chest area, nor is she completely helpless, butas you can see, she is still scantily clad.

Also the booths at the games conventions add to this generalisation that women in the gaming industry are there to entertain the men, with them displaying models hired to dress either in tight clothing displaying the companies logo or dressed up as one of the characters from the game they are hired to advertise.

It's no wonder, then, that alot of women believe that gaming is for immature males who spend far too much time alone and probably dont even have a girlfriend or even kissed a girl for that matter. Many a time I've had female friends look down upon me when my interests have come up in discussion as a lowly perverted geek, and suddenly they seem to want to be somewhere else.

There is an exception to this of course, as alot of women do play and enjoy games, and some of these can see beyond the above stereotypes and enjoy a game for what it is, but some are simply put off by it. I've overheard a group of sales assistants in a well known high street store discussing a female who'd just bought the previously mentioned Dead Or Alive volleyball game, whispering that she must be lesbian to want to buy such a game.

The point I'm trying to get to is, until gamers, developers and publishers stop using women as items, then the media will never be viewed as something for mature people rather than spotty 14 year olds (sorry to stereotype MetalDude!). And once this has happened, Videogames will be able to hld their heads up high over the music and film industries that are also stuck in this frame of mind.
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Also if any of you gaming girls (or guys wanting to chat to a group of gaming girls) want somewhere safe from the morons I've mentioned then I reccomend this place: GrrlGamer.com

And I'm starting a kind of mission to get women/females/girls more recognition within the gaming industry. so if you would like to support my campaign, could you please put this image in your sig on any forums you post on:

I'm also going to be putting together a small website with comments and stuff on for it over the next week, so if i post a link try and make the image link to the site

Thank you for your time and (hopefully) support.

[Tobias]

Ayame from Tenchu comes to mind senor. Not very revealing, but deadly...showing that you don't need the knockout looks to kill the baddies. A game character that you could use.

Good luck on your reverie senor. ANd hopefully, your anthem will get people chaning the way games are made.

[Terin]

Software developers are merely catering to the major demographic of gamers. It's a sad but true fact, and that's pretty much all there is to it.
-T

[Silver Adept]

Riva, one or two quibbles about things:

Ay: Many of those "large-chested" women are in fighting games, which is a more "male" province, I suspect. (Not that there aren't plenty of female fighting gamers, I should know - my sister can hand me mine on any given day of the week.) Plus, a lot of the action in those games are over-the-top, so the characters are, too. Beyond that, there are several characters in the various fighters who aren't overbalanced up top. (Although a considerable amount of them may be children.)

As for "rescue the princess", I'm sorry, but she's in another castle. (And another example of a female who doesn't need too much rescuing - Rydia from FFIV.)

[Yunni]

oo! Fraya, Beatrix, and Emiko in FF9 are kickass female characters - don't forget them O_O Sorry, but using Garnet to support your argument and ignoring the rest of the female cast is rather annoying to me ^^;; ALSO she wasn't totally helpless >.> Did she not run away from the castle herself, outsmarting Zidane during her escape? Througout the game, did she not grow stronger and stronger? Don't twist things, please.


Other than that, I do aggree on most of your points, and me being a gal actually studying on BA Computer Games Design and wanting to get into the industry myself, I know the pressure and difficulties. Saying that though - its NOT just the game industry that women and 'sexuality' are used as a selling point. Advertisments aimed at men in general are usually subject to this. 'Buy this / watch this / play this / and you can be a 'real man' and women will want you.' - is basically the selling tactic generally. And it works - so why should the industries change it?

They use the exact same ploy for women too, but instead of trying to sell 'sex' they sell 'beauty and good feeling'. Its just feeding primal needs.

**

The men on my course - sure the may very well be pervs or whatever. I ain't going to stereotype them, that makes me just as bad as what you don't like about booby-gals in games. Alot of the guys on my course are absolutly brilliant at what they do, they have talant and I hope they succeed. It also makes me want to do really well myself - not because I am female, but because I want to improve my own art and designing.

The game industry is very competitive and is male dominant, I don't think thats going to change immediatly if they do take out all the 'barbie-dolls' out of games. A lot of girls are just not into computers or consols, that's the way it is. Differences in how the brain works, different priorities. The typical man likes 'stuff', the typical woman likes 'people'.

Saying that - its also a CULTURE thing. Asia has a huge different mind-set to us - And to use the typical example, Japanese of all ages love games and animation and treat it seriously and not see it as 'kids stuff'. In Western culture, its a different matter.

I do hope in the future, more gals will be interrested - but because of the way the industry works, a buisness is not going to drastically change and indanger loosing a lot of customers.

[RivaOni]

[Girkon]

But the point is she is not resigned as a totally useless role. Much like getting to know a woman for who she is, if you spend time to know her skills and quirks better you will eventually come out as a better person for it. But if like many would simply say oh she's useless till then. Then that is just as much a part of the demographic is there.

[ChibiChaos]

I agree with rivaoni on this one pretty much 100%, there are very few games that don't have scantily clad/busty women in them, disgaea had...hmmm.. two. etna and flonne. ( i don't think the pink prinny counts ) ff9 had beatrix, freya and emiko, yeah, that was one of the only games i DIDN'T see scantily clad women in. buttt.. this is where i have to agree, when girls are in the game or they are the main character, they tend to have *ahem* exaggerated figures. take bloodrayne, rikku from ffX-2, the girl from gunvalkyrie, DOA (pick any), tekken spinoff with the blonde in it, the PLAYBOY game , god of war had actual nudity etc etc, the list goes on, but i don't let it bother me anymore, really. i just try to avoid games that have it in them, as if it would affect the gaming industry. you guys are right about garnet tho, she was useless for a long time, but by the end of the game, she could be a powerhouse if you raised her right. (kept her in the party and leveled her even though she had a 50/50 chance of casting the spell/summoning) at the end of my game, she was pretty great, i chose her over emiko for her casting power, and stuck with it, she was a great asset. freya was great too, and quina, whatever the heck (s)he was, was good too if you taught it stuff. but i DID notice, in almost every game, that all women are spellcasters or healers and very rarely are warriors. take diablo 2. same deal, there was ONE phyiscal attacker, an assassin, and she had to use bombs and such. i just hope one day it becomes equal, even though i know it probably never will.

[Yunni]

You forgot the Amazon in Diablo 2 ^_^

And its still annoying that you refuse to acknowledge Garnet as a strong character >.>; At the start, yes - but that's where character development comes in :/


Anyhoo - that's besides the point and I don't want to draw the topic into a tangent. In general, yes sadly - women are portrayed unrealistically in games, for male pleasure. Then again, so are the guys. However, instead of appealing to men's sexual fantasies, they appeal to a mans idealistic image. 'Hero image' for both men and women are generic 'perfect' images of what we see as a 'good looking' human. Classic example is comic book heroes and herroines.

I guess I'm trying to show the other side of the argument, cause I'm fair like that. Also - it adds spice to the debate ^_^

[BWS-1]

I don't want to sound like the *gay* devil's advocate here but, taking the Dead or Alive exemple, wouldn't you guys (and girls!) admit that the Male characters of the game are somewhat hmmm, o my sexy?

It's all part of the industry. And I must say that nowdays, that game is being plaid on both side, cause hey! I think the devlopers realised half the earth is populated with these people called ''women'' ... and that it wouldn't be a bad idea to try to get them to buy their games afterall!.

In how many games have we seen disproportionnaly huge musclular guys or ''bishonen amnesic ninja boyz'' (ok so maybe it's just Hayate from DoA here). If only you knew the amount of girls I knew that ''fell in love'' (in other words, went out there and bought the damn game) with FFX for the hotness of either Seymour and Tidus. Not to mention that Auron might not be ''showing his man boobs the way Kasumi is'' but he's got that ''I'm a mysterious dude and I kick ass big time without having to catch my breath'' charismatic ''character'', err, I mean ''look''.

An half naked girl might be enough to get a good % of male gamers in the industry, but an half naked guy might not have the same effect on the girls. Instead, different techniques will be used to get that same result, make characters be ''hot'' in the eye of the gamer, man or women. The only reason things are made sexy or not by developers is entirely for profit. If one day ''hot girls don't sell'' ... well you won't see much of Kazumi anymore! That's all.