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Just a question. |
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Graillik Tur
Renaissancetaku
Gender: 
Joined: 09 Jul 2004 |
 Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 1:04 pm Post subject: Just a question. |
After our last little upset over in another post I began to wonder...
Why is it that, when someone get's called out, or questioned, we shut down and say forget it.
I always thought that confrontation is normal. I admit if you argue long enough you lose sight of what you are discussing, but we shouldn't be afraid of a little down and dirty. It's nothing personal. Faye and I have had some pretty heated discussions, but he's also one of my best friends and I respect his position on many things. I don't agree, but I do respect. Simply because he stood up for what he believed in, and didn't back down.
Just a social question.
Late. |
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Legend
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| Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 1:37 pm Post subject: |
..Could you possibly explain what you mean by 'called out'? Because that infers that someone is -wrong- about something and provably so (IE: They said the capital of North Dakota is Providence or something) and...er..well, opinions are very rarely -wrong-, just different, so if you're saying, "Why is it whenever I get into an argument with someone and argue them into a hole they can't get out of because they're tired of arguing, they just give up?" then I can tell you- uh, well, sometimes people just get tired of arguing and go "Forget it" because in the end you're not going to see eye-to-eye and there's no point in continuing. Particularly if you're just making the same points over and over again with slightly different wording. |
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Silver Adept
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| Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 1:53 pm Post subject: |
People will discuss and be social so long as you don't trip their flight or fight instincts. If you appear to be badgering them or are being otherwise domineering, rather than dialogue or back-and-forth, most people will lose interest fast. The closer the issue is to their heart, the more likely they are to see you as trying to dominate. At other times, people just don't really want to talk about it. If you're not going to drop it, they're going to say "Forget it." and refuse to be drawin in.. |
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Faye
Luna Sierra
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| Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 2:57 pm Post subject: |
I chalk it up to the fact that some people dont like to argue, or that they come to a to an argument ill equiped and realize that a bit to late. You and I are very similar in that aspect though. You and I can argue about the same thing for hours on end and never break a sweat. Normally we are of differing opinions, but I think the fact that we can carry on intelligent debates with one another makes us closer friends.
I dunno, I like debates, arguments or whatever you want to call them. I think, when handled maturly, are excellent intellectual exercises. |
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FawkesFyre
Saving the World, one Kitty at a Time
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| Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 4:54 pm Post subject: |
I think it sometimes has to do with how others interpret what the other's point is.
It can get so blown out of proportion that the person just gives up. There have been a good number of threads that have gone this way lately... |
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RivaOni
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| Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 6:42 pm Post subject: |
| Faye wrote: | I chalk it up to the fact that some people dont like to argue, or that they come to a to an argument ill equiped and realize that a bit to late. You and I are very similar in that aspect though. You and I can argue about the same thing for hours on end and never break a sweat. Normally we are of differing opinions, but I think the fact that we can carry on intelligent debates with one another makes us closer friends.
I dunno, I like debates, arguments or whatever you want to call them. I think, when handled maturly, are excellent intellectual exercises. |
Define "coming to an argument ill equipped".
In regards to a discussion based on opinion, someones opinion doesn't have to be based on solid facts.
Case in point, a friend and I were discussing the Carling Cup Final that took place yesterday between Arsenal and Chelsea, I'm an Arsenal fan, he's a Chelsea fan. There was a fight on the pitch near the end of the match and we were discussing where the blame lay.
He was arguing thatit was the Arsenal centre-back's fault, Kolo Toure, for reacting to shirt-pulling, to which I pointed out that shirt-pulling is a yellow card offense, so Mikel shouldn't of been doing it in the first place, plus he's a fully fledged international with alot of experience, Toure is around 19 years old and has only been playing internationally for about a year, for the same country I believe, plus he's techincally still a kid and hehas fire in his belly so to speak, hes passionate and after controlling the majority of the game Arsenal were losing 2-1, they were frustrated.
My point was that the Chelsea players knew that the youngsters on the pitch for Arsenal (oldest in the team was Julio Baptista at 25) who do indeed have a slight discipline problem due to inexperience, and that they took advantage of that. But he stuck to his guns and said that shirt-pulling happens all the time and Toure's reaction shouldn't of been so over the top.
Then we discussed the following scuffle between Arsenal's Fabregas and Chelsea's Frank Lampard, he claimed Fabregas was throttling Lampard, but Lampard had arrived at the fight first and had begun pushing Toure around, thus I believed Fabregas was removing Lampard from the rucuss, albeit in the wrong manner.
We didn't have anything to back up our claims other than what we saw on the TV, and our obvious allegiances, and the discussion went on for quite a while. In the end we both backed down, accepted that the weaker team on the day won (well I said that, he didn't agree) and went back to talking about FFXII.
My point is, in regards to somebodies opinion on smoething, there isn't such thing as ill-equipped, sure if you're arguing hard-facts from two different sources, then one may not understand the points their arguing or may not have as much material available, but I though Grailik's initial post was regarding opinion and I don't think you can be ill equipped regarding your opinion, but you can get annoyed with arguing the same thing again and again because the other person won't accept that thats what you think and leave it at that.
This is something I talk to the door-knocking Jehova's witnesses and Methodist Church members about that are round our way, they try their best to seemingly convert me to their religion, but my own beliefs/opinions don't agree with what they believe now matter how many bible references they throw at me with their own spin on things. |
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Graillik Tur
Renaissancetaku
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Joined: 09 Jul 2004 |
| Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:44 pm Post subject: |
Well, I like to "call out" people who have opinions contracitory to mine to see if they can back them up with anything. Experiance, facts, figures, personal stories, anecdotes. Anything. Unfortunately most people just expect everyone to agree with them if they spit enough words at you. I don't believe that.
And calling out is saying someone is wrong, merely that they have to defend their position.
Late. |
_________________
It is my firm belief that in this era of mass connectivity, the death of us all will be mass media.
Why do we insist in believing we are masters of our surroundings when we fail so miserably to master ourselves?
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Legend
Queen of Terabithia
Age: 41
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Joined: 14 Oct 2005 |
| Posted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 11:55 pm Post subject: |
*shrug* I don't think people should have to defend their positions necessarily. If you believe something, you should be able to just say "That's what I believe" and be done with it if you're not the sort of person to question things.
I, personally, love to debate, particularly in the philosophical realm. S'why I'm minoring in Philosophy. However, in the end, all arguments really come down to personal belief. Believing one thing is just as logical as another. How you get to that really shouldn't matter. |
_________________
Close your eyes, but keep your Mind wide open.
If Everyone Cared, and Nobody Cried
If Everyone Loved, and Nobody Lied
If Everyone Shared, and Swallowed Their Pride
We'd see the Day Nobody Died.
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Graillik Tur
Renaissancetaku
Gender:
Joined: 09 Jul 2004 |
| Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 12:53 am Post subject: |
Well yes and no. A person on PCP may believe that their child is the spawn of Satan and attempt to murder them. Or as in a case in Texas, drown her 5 children because she 'believed' that was the only way to save their eternal souls. That is simply not true, but is true to her. So you have a contradiction between a personal reality and a collective reality.
Also it is not the opinion of someone that I find offensive. It is the 'belief' that thier opinion is right, and everyone should agree with them. That is why I call people out. If you can convince me that your way of thinking is better than mine, I might readdress my thoughts. But if you tell me something as trivial as "I believe what I believe" then I say to you, "and I believe the exact opposite, and we both can be right." |
_________________
It is my firm belief that in this era of mass connectivity, the death of us all will be mass media.
Why do we insist in believing we are masters of our surroundings when we fail so miserably to master ourselves?
|
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Wins 2 - Losses 10
Level 3 |
EXP: 283
HP: 1950
|
STR: 750
END: 600
ACC: 750
AGI: 600
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Shotbow (Shotgun)
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RivaOni
Full English!
Age: 41
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Joined: 24 Sep 2002 |
| Posted: Tue Feb 27, 2007 4:45 am Post subject: |
Wow, I dont remember exactly what I drank last night, but I didn't half go on! |
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