  |
|
 |
Joke thieves? |
 |
|
| Author |
Message |
PO Info |
 |
Terin
Huzzah!
Gender: 
Joined: 27 Oct 2003 |
 Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:24 pm Post subject: |
| Ming wrote: | | I think losing respect over two comedians (two GOOD comedians) over what Joe Rogan says is overreacting. But hey, you can listen to whoever you want. |
Joe Rogan isn't the only one making these claims, I did research, in fact only 1 link I used was to Joe Rogan's site. Please keep to the topic at hand, even if you loathe one of the sources for the topic itself.
-T |
|
|
|
 |
 |
Wins 41 - Losses 57
Level 10 |
EXP: 4282
HP: 2330
 |
STR: 850
END: 740
ACC: 1000
AGI: 710
|
Magnificent Mace of 1000 Misses (Mace)
(370 - 400) |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ming
DOOM!
Gender:
Joined: 13 Jan 2003 |
| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 2:25 pm Post subject: |
I am keeping the topic at hand. I saw all of this stuff when Officer Joe was attacking Carlos Mencia last year. And about a month later, no one cared anymore. The only reason that this is coming up again is because now he's starting a crusade against Dane Cook. And in a month, no one is going to care anymore again.
And the only reason I "loathe" Joe Rogan is because of this. It is my belief that he starts these things in order to gain attention for himself, and as such, I don't believe any of it. I'm not going to stop listening to someone that I deem funny because someone else accuses them of "copying" other comedians.
On the subject of "copying"...I'm not being racist, just stating my observations, but a lot of black comedians make jokes about the EXACT SAME THINGS. If you don't believe me, watch any BET stand-up shows. So why doesn't Joe go after Chris Rock and Dave Chappelle? It's not that they're copying each other...they're just telling their own jokes about the exact same subject matter.
One of the jokes that Carlos Mencia got critcized for was something that has to do with Mexicans illegally crossing the border and coming into the United States that apparently some other guy had told before. Do you know how many Hispanic comedians (especially Mexican ones) probably tell that EXACT same joke? So why take down a guy who actually became famous?
EDIT: Terin, while I still feel the way I feel about the situation and the paties involved, I apologize for getting kinda riled up about it and being particularly vicious. I just wanted to make sure you know I'm not taking shots/aiming my aggression at you. Basically, sorry for being a dick... |
_________________
Spinning around and being graceful looks cool, but then someone comes along and cuts something off, and the fight is over.
Official UP lover!
 |
|
|
|
 |
Wins 41 - Losses 44
Level 10 |
EXP: 5223
HP: 2300
|
STR: 900
END: 700
ACC: 1000
AGI: 800
|
Equitas (Sword)
(385 - 385) |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Terin
Huzzah!
Gender:
Joined: 27 Oct 2003 |
| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 3:31 pm Post subject: |
Sorry, when I asked to stay on topic I was basically asking to answer my OP
| Terin wrote: |
So please discuss. Do you think it's ok to steal material from other comics if it's not ALL of your act? These two seem to think so. I gotta say I don't... Feel free to research more before coming to any conclusions. |
You've basically answered that yes, you believe it's ok. That's fine and good. Oh yeah, and Joe Rogan isn't starting a crusade on Dane Cook. I should clarify this. When he was listing comedians who steal, he mentioned Dane. I was the one who went out and did the research to find out what he meant. The reason this is coming up again is because of the video you saw where he showed Carlos Mencia stealing material was from Feb 07.
Either way I'm content that we both have different views on the subject at hand (Which, btw is NOT Joe Rogan, OR who he's crusading against, it's simply what is your stance on comics stealing material.)
Now, in response to your reply, here's my view: I think ANY comedian who steals material from another comic without permission has what's coming to them. If you want to recycle an old joke, have the common courtesy to ask permission from the author of the joke (if they're alive). Otherwise it should be considered stealing, and morally it's wrong. It seems that you're saying that because others rip off comedians, it's ok. It's not ok, and personally I think that Carlos needs to be exposed, yes because he actually became famous. This will send a message to other comedians letting them know that society won't stand for it.
Of course, this is all my opinion, and we both are at opposite ends, and I'm fine with that. I just want you to understand where I'M coming from.
I'm still waiting for you to address the fact that there are other comedians/media personalities (besides Joe Rogan) that feel this is wrong.
-T |
Last edited by Terin on Wed Mar 21, 2007 3:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
|
Wins 41 - Losses 57
Level 10 |
EXP: 4282
HP: 2330
|
STR: 850
END: 740
ACC: 1000
AGI: 710
|
Magnificent Mace of 1000 Misses (Mace)
(370 - 400) |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
GAAZ
MOD Black Sheep Commander
Gender:
Joined: 14 Oct 2002 |
| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 3:39 pm Post subject: |
I liked Carlos before he was cool! 
Seriously I liked him a long time ago like in 2001 or something. I've liked Joe Rogan longer because he's a Blue Comedian (NOT BLUE COLLAR) and I like da blues.
I liked Dane cook back in 2000...Then I realised he's really just a moron that isn't funny to me at all anymore and his jokes get old real fast. Plus like Ming said 99.9% of his fans are Douchebags.
As for stealing jokes...Eh...Sampling jokes is ok...Stealing whole routines I'm against. Like if you stole 7 dirty words you can't say on TV from Carlin that is intellectual property and it is a crime to take. Making a joke about why late night TV can show half a boob and people getting their brains blown out but they can't say "fuck" is different. |
|
|
|
|
 |
Wins 76 - Losses 41
Level 13 |
EXP: 386
HP: 2685
|
STR: 895
END: 895
ACC: 895
AGI: 1015
|
Fillibuster the Third (Sword)
(420 - 440) |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ming
DOOM!
Gender:
Joined: 13 Jan 2003 |
| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 5:06 pm Post subject: |
| Terin wrote: |
| Terin wrote: |
So please discuss. Do you think it's ok to steal material from other comics if it's not ALL of your act? These two seem to think so. I gotta say I don't... Feel free to research more before coming to any conclusions. |
You've basically answered that yes, you believe it's ok. |
No, I don't believe it's ok. I apologize for not really answering the question before and going on a ranting tangent. I will admit that I haven't watched the videos or listened to the sound clips that you posted because I'm at work. I'm arguing based on what I read about and watched when last I touched on this subject. At the time, Carlos Mencia was the only one getting criticized. And at that time, I did not believe him to be copying jokes from anyone. His routines are his own. If he touches on the same subject-matter as another comedian, that's a completely different story. Just because one guy tells a Mexican joke doesn't mean another can't. Like I said before, comedy is about observations of particular situations, and it is entirely possible to make the same observations and judgements in a particular situation as someone else.
That's why I think this is really a gray area, and regardless of how much you argue either way, everyone perceives what's happening differently. I don't think blatant copying is morally right, but I don't think that this is the situation here.
| Terin wrote: | | I'm still waiting for you to address the fact that there are other comedians/media personalities (besides Joe Rogan) that feel this is wrong. |
Like I said, I didn't watch the stuff you posted yet because I'm at work, but I promise I'll watch it when I get home. But I'm afraid it's not going to convince me that Carlos Mencia and Dane Cook are copying anyone. I'm standing behind my belief that this is a gray area and will be perceived differently by everyone, and it's unfair to lose respect for people because of "he said, she said."
Sorry for frustrating you...
 |
_________________
Spinning around and being graceful looks cool, but then someone comes along and cuts something off, and the fight is over.
Official UP lover!
|
|
|
|
|
Wins 41 - Losses 44
Level 10 |
EXP: 5223
HP: 2300
|
STR: 900
END: 700
ACC: 1000
AGI: 800
|
Equitas (Sword)
(385 - 385) |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ScrumYummy
bunnyhunches of scrums
Gender: 
Joined: 29 Jun 2005 |
| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 5:11 pm Post subject: |
I don't like Mencia. He steals jokes from quite a few people, and cashes in on a stereotype he doesn't even ethnically belong to.
I think paralelling/getting inspiration from/borrowing ideas is okay. Blatantly stealing is not. It's the same as plagiarism, or copying someone else's artwork and calling it yours. |
_________________
-Scrum-
..it borked. :D |
|
|
|
 |
Wins 23 - Losses 22
Level 7 |
EXP: 2313
HP: 2241
|
STR: 779
END: 731
ACC: 795
AGI: 795
|
Totem Doll (Sword)
(320 - 360) |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ming
DOOM!
Gender:
Joined: 13 Jan 2003 |
| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 11:45 pm Post subject: |
I watched all the stuff that you posted Terin, and none of it has really changed from when Joe Rogan was last attacking Carlos Mencia. It's all the same crap rehashed again. With regard to this "feud" here's some videos I found...
This is one in defense of Carlos Mencia:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnr67Giq-LE&mode=related&search=
And this one is a funny parody of the video that's posted in Joe's MySpace:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dnr67Giq-LE&mode=related&search=
I think the second one is particularly important because it illustrates the ridiculousness of the entire situation.
I agree with you (and even Joe Rogan) that no one should copy jokes. But the line is not clearly defined. The joke Mencia tells about building the wall that he supposedly copied off of that Ari guy was also told (as seen in the first video) by George Lopez, who claims that Carlos Mencia steals his stuff, but then also goes on to say in a radio interview with Howard Stern that he doesn't like to see other Hispanic comedians succeed. Who's right? Who copied who? And honestly, does it really matter anyway? Like has been said, it's a very common joke to have come up with. There is evidence that those three guys told it, and I've heard about plenty of other comedians telling the same joke. Again, who's copying who?
My opinion on Carlos and Dane hasn't changed. I think that Joe Rogan (who's video claims that he's been one of the "louder voices in the comedy community" regarding stealing jokes) likes to start trouble.
| Terin wrote: | | I'm still waiting for you to address the fact that there are other comedians/media personalities (besides Joe Rogan) that feel this is wrong. |
From the perspective that stealing jokes is wrong, I agree with these guys. Blatantly stealing jokes is wrong. They have every right to be against stealing jokes. But I really don't think that this is the case in this situation. The other comedians that you're referring to (as far as I saw) are all Joe Rogan's friends, which just helps him in his crusade to take down Carlos Mencia and other better-known acts. And really, the jokes that they claim he steals push the line of being very generic sounding. Like I said in my previous post, multiple people can look at something happening, and have the same reaction and thoughts to it.
| ScrumYummy wrote: | | I don't like Mencia. He steals jokes from quite a few people, and cashes in on a stereotype he doesn't even ethnically belong to. |
If you don't like him then that's fine. But the fact is, he's a performer. Performers often times make up stage personas for themselves. Would you fault Gorillaz for not *really* being cartoon characters? Or how about faulting The White Stripes for their persona? Carlos Mencia's "real" name and ethnicity aren't really relevant here. Also, he IS at least half Hispanic. So technically, if he calls himself a "beaner" (which he does) he's not really wrong. I'm half Cuban. Technically, I can call myself a "beaner" too, and I wouldn't be wrong. But I won't continue to go in that direction...I can sense trouble brewing...
So I hope that, since I've now cooled off and am no longer at work, I made myself and my position here clear. Blatantly stealing jokes is wrong. Using the same inspiration to come up with the same joke as someone else is not, and is inevitable sometimes. But, the line is hazy. I don't think that Carlos Mencia should be targeted, because I personally like him and don't think that he's done anything wrong, based on what I've been watching. I really do hope that you look into both sides of this situation, however, before you jump to conclusions based on an argument that is basically, "he said, she said..." and one guy's word against another. |
_________________
Spinning around and being graceful looks cool, but then someone comes along and cuts something off, and the fight is over.
Official UP lover!
|
|
|
|
|
Wins 41 - Losses 44
Level 10 |
EXP: 5223
HP: 2300
|
STR: 900
END: 700
ACC: 1000
AGI: 800
|
Equitas (Sword)
(385 - 385) |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Terin
Huzzah!
Gender:
Joined: 27 Oct 2003 |
| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 12:53 am Post subject: |
After watching the vid that you posted (the 2nd link is the same as the first though), I thank you for doing the research to find it and shedding more light on what's going on behind the feud, as well as what seems to be Joe Rogan admitting that he's doing this for exposure (I won't say for sure because the video didn't capture the entire interview, but it DID sound like he was doing it to gain attention) This was what I was originally hoping for, basically as much light on this subject as possible.
However, I still don't like the fact that in the Joe Rogan vid Carlos whips out his green card after in the video you posted he clearly states he was raised in Cali. I cannot respect a comedian who lies to his audience. That's not Joe Rogan calling him out, that's Mencia doing it to himself.
As far as the gray area of borrowed bits go, it varies from person to person. Yours happens to be more forgiving than mine. Basically, my definition of stealing someones joke is if the subject is the same and the punchline is identical. Tweaking the joke slightly doesn't make it your own. Once again, this is just MHO. Yes it's possible to come up with the same joke as someone else. However I think that if that person makes it a part of his/her routine, that makes it off-limits to you. That's the only way to tell the difference between stolen jokes and jokes that were made at the same time. Is it too extreme? Perhaps, but how else would you make that line? If you don't think it's neccisary, what's to stop me from making a whole routine of other comedian's acts, tweaking them to fit my personality, then claiming that I came up with them at the same time they did?
I also never remember George Lopez claiming to be Mencia's friend, and the same goes with the DJs from the 2nd Mencia link I posted.
BTW, your last post calmed me down, and I'm not frustrated with ya anymore, so thanks hehe 
-T |
|
|
|
|
|
Wins 41 - Losses 57
Level 10 |
EXP: 4282
HP: 2330
|
STR: 850
END: 740
ACC: 1000
AGI: 710
|
Magnificent Mace of 1000 Misses (Mace)
(370 - 400) |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Ming
DOOM!
Gender:
Joined: 13 Jan 2003 |
| Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 9:32 am Post subject: |
Sorry, I must have done a bad job with copying and pasting, this was supposed to be the second video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ephZ0iwwd3s
| Terin wrote: | | However, I still don't like the fact that in the Joe Rogan vid Carlos whips out his green card after in the video you posted he clearly states he was raised in Cali. I cannot respect a comedian who lies to his audience. That's not Joe Rogan calling him out, that's Mencia doing it to himself. |
Being born in one place and being raised there are completely different. You could be born in another country, immigrate to the United States when you're young, and both be from that country and raised in the United States. Carlos said he was raised in LA, not born there.
| Terin wrote: | | As far as the gray area of borrowed bits go, it varies from person to person. Yours happens to be more forgiving than mine. Basically, my definition of stealing someones joke is if the subject is the same and the punchline is identical. Tweaking the joke slightly doesn't make it your own. |
I agree that tweaking a joke slightly doesn't make it your own. But that particular joke about the wall is a bad one to call someone out on because it's such a common reaction to an obviously ridiculous situation. I'm sure that when the Governator made that statement about building a wall between the US and Mexico to keep illegal immigrants out, thousands of people collectively thought "Well, who do you think is gonna build that wall?" I think it's all on a joke for joke basis.
| Terin wrote: | | Yes it's possible to come up with the same joke as someone else. However I think that if that person makes it a part of his/her routine, that makes it off-limits to you. |
Yeah, but who's to say who actually used the joke first? If they thought of the same joke, then why shouldn't they both be able to use it? And what if Guy A used it first, then Guy B uses it without having seen Guy A use it before?
| Terin wrote: | | I also never remember George Lopez claiming to be Mencia's friend, and the same goes with the DJs from the 2nd Mencia link I posted. |
I don't think he ever did. I didn't say that either, and I don't think the video I posted did. I was just illustrating the point that George Lopez also used that "wall" joke.
| Terin wrote: | | BTW, your last post calmed me down, and I'm not frustrated with ya anymore, so thanks hehe |
Again, sorry for being a jerk yesterday. I was in a particularly vicious mood for some reason. |
_________________
Spinning around and being graceful looks cool, but then someone comes along and cuts something off, and the fight is over.
Official UP lover!
|
|
|
|
|
Wins 41 - Losses 44
Level 10 |
EXP: 5223
HP: 2300
|
STR: 900
END: 700
ACC: 1000
AGI: 800
|
Equitas (Sword)
(385 - 385) |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 |
|
 |
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
