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Afrocentric schools |
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Terin Huzzah!

Gender:  Joined: 27 Oct 2003 |
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:56 am Post subject: Afrocentric schools |
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SirGunslinger Rebel without a clue

Gender:  Joined: 21 Jun 2007 |
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:00 am Post subject: |
Strikes me as a feel-good political solution that completely ignores the underlying source of the problem.
For every thousand people striking at the branches of evil, only one strikes at the root. |
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Razer 4934 5157 5662 5658

Gender:  Joined: 07 Oct 2002 |
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:25 am Post subject: |
First off, it's AFROcentric. Africentric would be based on Africa itself.
Secondly, this sentance boils alot down:
"The Toronto District School Board says 40 per cent of Caribbean-born students drop out, and 32 per cent from east Africa."
Point one: This isn't even as simple as Black Canadians. Caribbean/West Indian kids and East African kids can hardly speak American English without a hindering accent so their understanding of it is also handicapped. Then let's remember that Canada's main language (I believe) is French. So now you're asking an African child to learn fluent English AND French. This would be akin to taking pure Spanish children from Spain and putting them in school in Japan, asking them to learn Japanese and Cantonese, and then commenting on the dropout rate. These children have no history taught to them that they can relate to and what is taught is probably not taught by Black teachers. I hate to say it like this but Whites cannot understand this simply because the rules have always been dictated by Whites for Whites.
Now I'm not saying this would be the only problem. Kids flunk out/drop out because of all kinds of reasons and, not being a scientist of this, I would say it's mostly based on social climate/surroundings. That being said, I'm sure anyone that looks at the language example I gave could see that this could be a major cause. I'm not advocating all Black schooling simply because that would create it's own problems but to try to sum up all of the problems resulting in a dropout rate would be impossible. While the intelligent solution would involve integrating a more well rounded curriculum into the schooling process, this is a mildly decent way to start...barely. However, if this is done as an experiment then it's simply a trap. I'd guess (again, I'm no scientist) that no logical results could be garnered in less than 2-3 generations of this "project" being run but surely within 2-3 years, if it goes that long, the results will be in...as they say. Of course I don't expect anyone to give 100% backing or energy. It'll be a token effort so that WHEN it fails they can stand back and say "See, we gave them what they asked for" type of thing. Again, we're talking about kids who weren't even born in the same continent.
This entire story is ridiculous in it's construction, for lack of a better word. There should have been way more research done and points explained before throwing something like this out there. I'd file this under Sensationalistic Journalism. There is a story here but not in this article. |
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RivaOni Full English!

Age: 41 Gender:  Joined: 24 Sep 2002 |
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 7:45 am Post subject: |
Razer wrote: | First off, it's AFROcentric. Africentric would be based on Africa itself.
Secondly, this sentance boils alot down:
"The Toronto District School Board says 40 per cent of Caribbean-born students drop out, and 32 per cent from east Africa."
Point one: This isn't even as simple as Black Canadians. Caribbean/West Indian kids and East African kids can hardly speak American English without a hindering accent so their understanding of it is also handicapped. Then let's remember that Canada's main language (I believe) is French. So now you're asking an African child to learn fluent English AND French. This would be akin to taking pure Spanish children from Spain and putting them in school in Japan, asking them to learn Japanese and Cantonese, and then commenting on the dropout rate. These children have no history taught to them that they can relate to and what is taught is probably not taught by Black teachers. I hate to say it like this but Whites cannot understand this simply because the rules have always been dictated by Whites for Whites.
Now I'm not saying this would be the only problem. Kids flunk out/drop out because of all kinds of reasons and, not being a scientist of this, I would say it's mostly based on social climate/surroundings. That being said, I'm sure anyone that looks at the language example I gave could see that this could be a major cause. I'm not advocating all Black schooling simply because that would create it's own problems but to try to sum up all of the problems resulting in a dropout rate would be impossible. While the intelligent solution would involve integrating a more well rounded curriculum into the schooling process, this is a mildly decent way to start...barely. However, if this is done as an experiment then it's simply a trap. I'd guess (again, I'm no scientist) that no logical results could be garnered in less than 2-3 generations of this "project" being run but surely within 2-3 years, if it goes that long, the results will be in...as they say. Of course I don't expect anyone to give 100% backing or energy. It'll be a token effort so that WHEN it fails they can stand back and say "See, we gave them what they asked for" type of thing. Again, we're talking about kids who weren't even born in the same continent.
This entire story is ridiculous in it's construction, for lack of a better word. There should have been way more research done and points explained before throwing something like this out there. I'd file this under Sensationalistic Journalism. There is a story here but not in this article. |
The problem here is this is segregation, how many years have black people thought for equality? would the white community be allowed white only schools? not on your nelly, so its not equality, its specialist treatment.
Also, African children are usually taught English very early on by family members who also teach them the only way they'll get anywhere in life is to escape to an English speaking country, and lastly, many of the African nations are, or at least were, French colonies and some of those countries still has French as a first, or at least secondary language.
This is a problem similar to what Britain has at the moment with alot of Polish people coming over, filling schools and jobs leaving British nationals struggling to find either, especially as the Polish workforce is willing to take a lower wage and poor living conditions... |
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Ming DOOM!

Gender:  Joined: 13 Jan 2003 |
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:17 am Post subject: |
RivaOni wrote: | The problem here is this is segregation, how many years have black people thought for equality? would the white community be allowed white only schools? not on your nelly, so its not equality, its specialist treatment. |
This was the first thing that came to mind when I started reading this, and the article ever confirms it. It really does seem like a step back from what has been fought for for so many years. There also seems to be an underlying double-standard here that no one seems to ever want to touch on, and that is that this would NEVER fly for a "Whitecentric" school, as Riva also mentioned. And honestly, I'm glad that the article reports that there is controversy behind all this, because it shows that people are paying attention and not keeping their mouths shut in the name of political correctness. Then again, this is Canada we're talking about. I'd be interested to see how this would be reacted to in the United States.
I agree with Razer that a better solution would be to integrate a more well-rounded curriculum, but also to offer specialized help where it's needed. I think creating an entire school based around this is a bit much. |
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Terin Huzzah!

Gender:  Joined: 27 Oct 2003 |
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:54 pm Post subject: |
I was talking to GAAZ about this, and he made a good point. There are TONS of Asians living in Canada, and yet there hasn't been an outcry like this from them. Canada has 2 primary languages, English and French. (and Quebec is the only province that uses French primarily.) The year I lived there, I worked with many Canadians who didn't know French at all, so no they aren't FORCED to learn both.
It's all about independently breaking down language barriers. If the parents are going to move to another country with a different language, then it's POSSIBLE that they need to brush up their kids on learning the language. If there are enough students who don't know english to warrant a high school class that teaches it, fine. It makes no sense to go to another country who speaks a different language from you and then complain about it. It's your fault for going there without breaking down the language barrier.
Razor wrote: |
This would be akin to taking pure Spanish children from Spain and putting them in school in Japan, asking them to learn Japanese and Cantonese, and then commenting on the dropout rate. |
Who's putting the children in those schools? Is it the school system? Is it the country's fault for not teaching history classes that are relative to ANOTHER countries history? Oh wait, they do, it's called college.
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Shandriz Your Death Shall be Swift

Gender:  Joined: 28 Sep 2003 |
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:15 pm Post subject: |
*shrugs* I know they have "Chinese" schools here in America, where Chinese kids can learn the language and learn about their culture...which is sort've a different thing, but similar concept. I wish -I- could go to Chinese school. T_T Stupid European heritage. |
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SirGunslinger Rebel without a clue

Gender:  Joined: 21 Jun 2007 |
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:07 pm Post subject: |
Shandriz wrote: | *shrugs* I know they have "Chinese" schools here in America, where Chinese kids can learn the language and learn about their culture...which is sort've a different thing, but similar concept. I wish -I- could go to Chinese school. T_T Stupid European heritage. |
What's stopping you? =D
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I do not aim with my hand; he who aims with his hand has forgotten the face of his father. I aim with my eye.
I do not shoot with my hand; he who shoots with his hand has forgotten the face of his father. I shoot with my mind.
I do not kill with my gun; he who kills with his gun has forgotten the face of his father. I kill with my heart.
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Shandriz Your Death Shall be Swift

Gender:  Joined: 28 Sep 2003 |
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:11 pm Post subject: |
Money? Time? They probably wouldn't let me? I'd be a school outcast? I don't know, a billion different reasons. |
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Akanari Owns your reality

Gender:  Joined: 29 Sep 2004 |
Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:30 pm Post subject: |
What pisses me off the most about this article is that Blacks are getting special treatment.
As opposed to the rest of the minorities. What about the Hispanic dropout rate? The Asian? How come the Asians can learn just fine in a public school system but the Black kids can't? Public schools exist for the very purpose of taking in new people to the country, whether they be children or immigrants, and integrating them into the society of the said country.
I would freak out if my tax dollars were being used for this.
Quote: | "If black kids need to graduate, let's get teachers in there and learn how to interact with black kids," she said. |
Shandriz wrote: | *shrugs* I know they have "Chinese" schools here in America, where Chinese kids can learn the language and learn about their culture...which is sort've a different thing, but similar concept. I wish -I- could go to Chinese school. T_T Stupid European heritage. |
Those schools are private. They can do whatever the hell they want. This is a publicly funded program.
Riva Oni wrote: | This is a problem similar to what Britain has at the moment with alot of Polish people coming over, filling schools and jobs leaving British nationals struggling to find either, especially as the Polish workforce is willing to take a lower wage and poor living conditions... |
That sounds exactly like the problem America has with Hispanics. Spain has that problem too, not with Hispanics, but with Eastern Europeans.
This is also helpful - FAQ on black-focused schools
Quote: | To all the whites in the deep south: Don't worry, segregation is still alive and thriving in Canada.
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