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The Swiss issue a bill of rights to plants |
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Tobias
*explodes*
Age: 38
Gender: 
Joined: 17 Jan 2003 |
 Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 9:28 pm Post subject: |
| Ming wrote: | | This explains why I hears millions of tiny screams every time I mow the lawn. |
it's cheesy, but...
ROFLMAO*explodes*
now then, I actually went into this thing and started reading it, and it brings up some interesting views on plant-relationship and moral decisions. I especially like how it breaks down a plants worth into the three categories of "Instrumental," "Relational" and "Inherent Value." The fact that plants are a necessary thing for humans, better yet, all living things to survive does bring up the fact that plants do, I guess have a value that makes them necessary to be protected from unjust maiming and destroying.
But who am I kidding? This thing sounds like Kantian ethics and Platonic/Socratic/Aristotelian Ethics all over again. Unless you plan on teaching it to the man who is felling a rainforest, it's falling on deaf ears. And last time I heard, the Swiss don't have rainforests - they may have their own ecological issues, IE: ice caps and the whole global warming issue, which do have direct links to the cases of the groundwork for the metaphysics of plant morals, but really, you're only gonna make an impact if you can get the guy felling trees at a stupid rate to understand. And making me understand doesn't really do much.
But who knows - maybe some man on the equator sees that and has a change of heart. Still, I just feel like we already take enough advantage of the environment. I think that if they wanted this to have more of an impact, don't make it as hokey as plant rights, because that makes people want to look at it for shear enjoyment and laughs. In fact, I quote:
| Quote: | The rosebush has an instrumental
value, because a rose hedge pro-
tects against undesired intrusions.
– The rosebush has a relational value,
because its beautiful flowers remind
you of your dead grandmother.
– The rosebush has inherent worth,
independently of whether it is use-
ful or whether someone ascribes a
value to it |
Honestly, I couldn't stop laughing about this. They made a point, but I can't take it seriously, I just can't. If this means as much as it does to them that they wish plants to have rights, then more education is needed in biology class on how the ecosystem works, because the majority of people will not believe that something has rights that we regularly chop up and up-root to eat or keep clean. And while I could say that they don't complain, and someone can throw in the argument that a dog doesn't complain when you kick it, the dog still whimpers, puts it's tail between its legs and looks sad at you. The plant just dies and is over with it, or grows funny and we get mad at it.
Moral of my rantings - Plant rights are stupid, teach more in ecology and biology class. Less people will have the desire to uproot a daisy and set it aflame. |
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Aindriahhn
Auralyth: Chosen of Wind
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Joined: 25 Sep 2002 |
| Posted: Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:33 pm Post subject: |
Interesting question here, really. What it ultimately comes down to is what, exactly, is life? How is life measured? Are there different levels and types of life? Is some life more or less valuable than others? Is all life, ultimately, the same? |
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Blackmage
Intragalactic Acquisitions Agent Mew
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Joined: 02 Feb 2004 |
| Posted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:37 pm Post subject: |
| Aindriahhn wrote: | | Interesting question here, really. What it ultimately comes down to is what, exactly, is life? How is life measured? Are there different levels and types of life? Is some life more or less valuable than others? Is all life, ultimately, the same? |
Hey someone got it! |
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Diablo
Host of Kirahaad
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Joined: 12 Apr 2003 |
| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:18 am Post subject: |
from my understanding, eating JUST plants or JUST meat is unhealthy. We require a multitude of different nutrients which we receive from the VARIOUS things we as humans eat. In my opinion from what Aindriahhn wrote, life is only worth to those with the will to survive. (Yes im a pretty vicious person, I wont lie about that)
EDIT: Also, if smashing plants for no reason what so ever is bad then I'm always doing bad acts.. I walk through my back yard daily with my puppy while he goes potty and I mash my fair share of plants, killing some by playing with my puppy even. |
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Doot
Cute and Non-Abrasive Hyper Hypo
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Joined: 15 Sep 2002 |
| Posted: Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:05 am Post subject: |
There's a thick line between rights and respect.
Just because you want to chop down a tree for the sake of chopping one down doesn't validate it. You, at that point, are valuing your own selfish desire above the life of another being (whether it be in your species, genome, class, whatever.)
If you are cutting down a tree for a purpose and use it's respecting it's ability to give you such a gift. You would not have that toasty fire to warm you and keep you (and whomever) from freezing to death, you may not have it to build a home for shelter, you may not carve it as a cradle for your child to rest in. When you make use of something and not frivolously demolish it then you are giving it a meaning beyond a destruction - an homage to a rebirth of sorts.
Native Americans used every bit of a buffalo because they revered the life that was given to put it to it's further uses. Read "Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee". Anglos hunted for the sport and only took what little they wanted.
Our society has come so accustomed to excess and single-use that it has turned us into individual garbage generators.
Every being on this planet has a necessity to sustain its life.Plants, animals, humans. There are ways to coexist with respect instead of incessantly valuing your existence over that of others. |
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Shandriz
Your Death Shall be Swift
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| Posted: Sat Nov 22, 2008 11:18 pm Post subject: |
Everything Doot said x 100. <3 |
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shadokastur
Patience to see and strength to do. That is all.
Gender:
Joined: 26 Jan 2003 |
| Posted: Mon Nov 24, 2008 11:07 am Post subject: |
| Doot wrote: | There's a thick line between rights and respect.
Just because you want to chop down a tree for the sake of chopping one down doesn't validate it. You, at that point, are valuing your own selfish desire above the life of another being (whether it be in your species, genome, class, whatever.)
If you are cutting down a tree for a purpose and use it's respecting it's ability to give you such a gift. You would not have that toasty fire to warm you and keep you (and whomever) from freezing to death, you may not have it to build a home for shelter, you may not carve it as a cradle for your child to rest in. When you make use of something and not frivolously demolish it then you are giving it a meaning beyond a destruction - an homage to a rebirth of sorts.
Native Americans used every bit of a buffalo because they revered the life that was given to put it to it's further uses. Read "Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee". Anglos hunted for the sport and only took what little they wanted.
Our society has come so accustomed to excess and single-use that it has turned us into individual garbage generators.
Every being on this planet has a necessity to sustain its life.Plants, animals, humans. There are ways to coexist with respect instead of incessantly valuing your existence over that of others. |
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Al the DLOE
Director of Unpleasent Facts Dept.
Age: 43
Gender:
Joined: 05 Dec 2006 |
| Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 2:18 pm Post subject: |
seeing the bill of rights to plants....I want some Agent Orange and a few other defoliants. plants are alive, food, food of food, usable for shelter, and pretty but have no rights. they may be life but some life exists to balance others as any of the reasons listed above. i am not going to read rights to a plant since they only care about the CO2 and other wastes i put out. plus did they take time to note that they printed the rights on paper (plant fiber), had power generated to have light (coal,peat were plant mass) and the ink was most likely soy based? (well GE soy but still) |
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ScrumYummy
bunnyhunches of scrums
Gender:
Joined: 29 Jun 2005 |
| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 4:51 pm Post subject: |
I agree with Aka, Shan and Doot. (Omg doot, that post was awesome). I don't feel the need to reiterate what they said.
Although I have to make a comment about this
| reaper wrote: | The funny thing I learned watching the Alaska Experiment show is that we are all definitely omnivores. There was this chick in one of the camps who was vegan, but after not eating in almost a week she gave that right up.
Get hungry enough and you will kill anything you can find to keep yourself from starving to death. Maybe in 400,000 years or so we will evolve to a diet that doesn't need protein, but for now I say grill it up! |
There are entire societies in the world that are completely vegan. The entire nation of Japan was vegan at one point. Of course, in these places, you can grow the crops that you need to live a vegan lifestyle. The alaskan wilderness is an entirely different thing. I would think it would be almost impossible to live naturally vegan there.
So your example was a poor reason for not being vegan. Sorry.
By the way, guys, I went completely vegan this past March! WOOOOO! So now I just need to stop drinking and I will be living up to my Buddhist precepts. X) |
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reaper
I miss you Shar
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Joined: 28 Dec 2002 |
| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 5:40 pm Post subject: |
| ScrumYummy wrote: |
There are entire societies in the world that are completely vegan. The entire nation of Japan was vegan at one point. Of course, in these places, you can grow the crops that you need to live a vegan lifestyle. The alaskan wilderness is an entirely different thing. I would think it would be almost impossible to live naturally vegan there.
So your example was a poor reason for not being vegan. Sorry.
By the way, guys, I went completely vegan this past March! WOOOOO! So now I just need to stop drinking and I will be living up to my Buddhist precepts. X) |
I can't believe this is still going on lol, I am not trying to be anti vegetarian or anything...anyways on guard!
Historically Hunter gatherers had pretty good balanced diets. Then with the origin of agriculture populations increased and there was a heavy reliance on plant crops. People were not getting meat, and they suffered from protein deficiencies. The key difference is hunter gatherers had higher meat intake and thus better over all nutrition. (this is cited in multiple archaeological papers)
Yes Alaska was an extreme, but it was to make a point that it is indeed quite difficult to get necessary protein levels from plants in your local environment, regardless of how lush your environment is the story is pretty much the same. Pretty much any survival situation anywhere would require steady meat intake to keep you healthy.
Now vegetarianism for the last 20-30 years is just fine, and if you choose to be one that's great. With our modern knowledge of nutrition and the composition of foods, coupled with the ability to obtain food stuffs from around the world at your corner grocer you can be perfectly healthy.
But to reiterate my point which was overlooked. In any type of natural setting(not our freakish industrial globaly connected consumer society which has only bee around for maybe 50 years or so) eating meat would be essential to your health and survival.
So no it was not a poor example |
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