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Bush Backs Ban On Gay Marriages |
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Nogrick
Everybody DANCE!
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Joined: 30 Sep 2002 |
 Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 12:42 pm Post subject: |
| Quote: | | Homosexuality is being pushed upon me with things like queer eye or the wave of metrosexuals |
| Quote: | | I said they were being forced upon me. |
Yeah, and heterosexuality hasn't been pushed or forced on them. You are acting like you are the minority here when you aren't. You are the one that is pushing them back. You are the reason many gays stay in the closet. You are the one who is choosing to play God's role and say that homosexuality is a sin. I'm pretty sure you do not like it when people put words in your mouth, so why do it to God?
I've read in the Bibile countless times that God loves everyone. That's why he let Jesus die for us. All of us. Even the Romans and Jews who put him to death. They may all be sinning, but he still cares for us, even if we are sent to hell, the frozen wasteland that it is. He feels our pain and shares it with us. I was also told at Judgment Day that God will reclaim all that is his and hell will be no more. So eventually everyone will go to heaven. God bless 9 years of Catholic schooling. It's just too bad I'm agnostic now.
Anyway back one the political aspect, This doesn't hurt anyone. Again you have to throw religion out the window and look at it as a view as what's best for the country. If thousands of people are living in fear because they do not want to be persecuted by others, then something is seriously f-bombed with the country. Not like we aren't already seen as a monster and a savior to many countries, so let's chalk another one up for the bad side. Pretty soon all gay people will be wearing their pieces of flair telling the world that they are gay and can't be married, just like in the 40's.
Now if you say it does hurt you on a NON RELIGIOUS aspect then what does it violate? You're own homophobic tendencies is about all I can think of. Yeah you might feel uncomfortable with them around you, but there are also people who feel uncomfortable are white, blacks, asians, canadians, catholics, jews, muslims, and every thing else in the world. Hell my girlfriend can't stand dogs. So who is she to say that dogs can't marry? Or who is anyone to say that anyone can't get married. If we do see a ban on gay marrige, then I can see a society like in the book The Giver, where people are given a job and only some can be mothers. Partners are chosen for you by the gov't as is your job and every other aspect of you life.
And that is no way to live. |
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Doot
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| Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 2:12 pm Post subject: |
I <3 Nogrick. Well said! |
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Minosheep
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| Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 3:13 pm Post subject: |
I think the only thing that has been proven so far by you yet, Kensei, is that you have no respect for the lifestyles of others. Bush CAN NOT pass this bill, because that would be violating the basic foundations of the country. Don't like it, move to England--I hear they've made smoking illegal there now.  |
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KenseiKurisuchan
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Joined: 17 Mar 2003 |
| Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 5:51 pm Post subject: |
| Quote: | | Yeah, and heterosexuality hasn't been pushed or forced on them. You are acting like you are the minority here when you aren't. You are the one that is pushing them back. You are the reason many gays stay in the closet. You are the one who is choosing to play God's role and say that homosexuality is a sin. I'm pretty sure you do not like it when people put words in your mouth, so why do it to God? |
Being the majority can lead to being the minority easily. At Berkmar, there are still many whites, but because of political correctness, we're usually treated one level below minorities.
And I'm not putting words into God's mouth, He put them into the Bible.
| Quote: | | I've read in the Bibile countless times that God loves everyone. That's why he let Jesus die for us. All of us. Even the Romans and Jews who put him to death. They may all be sinning, but he still cares for us, even if we are sent to hell, the frozen wasteland that it is. He feels our pain and shares it with us. I was also told at Judgment Day that God will reclaim all that is his and hell will be no more. So eventually everyone will go to heaven. God bless 9 years of Catholic schooling. It's just too bad I'm agnostic now. |
For the last time, no He does not love everyone. Go read Romans. I've already pointed out several times that God said He hated Esau. He is a god of wrath as well, you know. Gogo Protestant power.
| Quote: | | Anyway back one the political aspect, This doesn't hurt anyone. Again you have to throw religion out the window and look at it as a view as what's best for the country. If thousands of people are living in fear because they do not want to be persecuted by others, then something is seriously f-bombed with the country. Not like we aren't already seen as a monster and a savior to many countries, so let's chalk another one up for the bad side. Pretty soon all gay people will be wearing their pieces of flair telling the world that they are gay and can't be married, just like in the 40's. |
The funk bomb? And what if we do allow it? Groups will start to protest on everything else involving marriage, just as Ain pointed out with his vegetable arguement. Incest and polygamy will have to be allowed as well. I for one don't think that either of those will help the country much..
| Quote: | | Now if you say it does hurt you on a NON RELIGIOUS aspect then what does it violate? You're own homophobic tendencies is about all I can think of. Yeah you might feel uncomfortable with them around you, but there are also people who feel uncomfortable are white, blacks, asians, canadians, catholics, jews, muslims, and every thing else in the world. Hell my girlfriend can't stand dogs. So who is she to say that dogs can't marry? Or who is anyone to say that anyone can't get married. If we do see a ban on gay marrige, then I can see a society like in the book The Giver, where people are given a job and only some can be mothers. Partners are chosen for you by the gov't as is your job and every other aspect of you life. |
For one, I'm not homophobic and it's starting to piss me off being generalized as that because I'm against this. I'm not against blacks but I hate a lot of rap music. And no, I don't feel uncomfortable around them. I've talked to a few over the past year or so, and it's not much different than talking to anyone else. It's not like they say 'that's fab' every few seconds or everything (Gogo Queer Eye for promoting stereotypes). |
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Sperrit
Chosen of Earth
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| Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 6:31 pm Post subject: |
Alright folks, I believe that I said my peace a while back and I'm going to stick to it, but here's another little tidbit to munch on.
Let's say that under some crazy-ass circumstances the issue of Gay Marriage appeared before the Supreme Court. I tell you now that they could not prohibit gay marriage for one simple reason:
The 14th Amendment.
The 14th Amendment states that all persons are provided equal protection and liberties under the law. This means that since heterosextual people are allowed to get married (marriage which is a civil union by two people which thereby confers upon them certain rights and privaleges that they did not have before, rights that can only be aquired through the specific act of marriage) homosextual people are allowed to get married too. The only way that they could overturn the 14th amendment and thereby ban gay marriage is by classifying homosextual people as not being people at all, which is so ludicrious that the mind boggles.
Bottom line: Prohibiting gay marriage ain't gonna happen, folks. So get used to it.
And, lastly, I hope that all of you realize that this is just one big political ploy on the part of Bush. The fact is the majority of people in the U.S. are opposed to gay marriage. By saying that he opposes it he puts his opponent in a supremely bad position, that being he either A.) Disagrees with him and loses a huge support base or B.) Agrees with him, conceding Bush the political victory.
You know, there are times this country makes me fucking sick.
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Aindriahhn
Auralyth: Chosen of Wind
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| Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 6:54 pm Post subject: |
| Reverend wrote: |
3. Gotcha, but can you also accept that for other people such sins might not be sins, or that there are litigating factors?
|
I don't see the validity of this, I mean, sex is not a requirement for life. The Bible does talk about stealing bread to feed a family, but gay marriage isn't, in any sane case, going to prevent death.
If homosexuality is a sin, which the Bible tells us it is, than it is a sin.
Of course...
"Judge not lest ye be judged"
But sin is sin. No matter what people say.
If you want to be homosexual, don't try to change the church, leave it. If you don't believe in what your church says, leave it.
You really have no place there if you don't believe in it.
People can, however, and will, judge you by your actions (look at the Biblical use of fruit.)
So perhaps on should remember that
"Love the sinner, hate the sin"
and
"Judge not lest ye be judged"
Go hand in hand. |
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GAAZ
MOD Black Sheep Commander
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| Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 7:05 pm Post subject: |
You guys are seriously making this thread hard for the mod in me...I keep thinking this is going to turn into a bickering match destined to just eventually turn into a ,"F you bitch you damn ho-bag." thing...Then you bastards keep on impressing me by holding up your sides of the argument...But you all haveta realize yer never gonna change anyones mind. So I'll come back in a couple pages and see if it needs locking. |
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Kai
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| Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 7:12 pm Post subject: |
Ha... I can believe I only just found this string. *currently is doing a Current Events report on said issue*
I try not to look at this thing in a baised way, BUT as a gay male (and one who hopes to truely fall in love one day) I would like, in my future, to get married. Maybe marriage would help us (gays) deal with other issues we have... Like getting health insurance and adopting children. I'm not going to go in to the whole gayness-is-a-sin aspect of this argument because I don't believe it belongs here. We are talking about marriage... not 'sin'.
Gay marriage and Gay civil unions should be allowed. Here is why. Gays are people. Nothing with us getting married is illegal. All the states have that stupid Sodomy law abolished now right? So there nothing is illegal with what we do. I'm so fucking tired of everyone who doesn't want this bill passed saying 'well if we allow this we'll have to allow beastiality and bigamy' and all that shit. I can't stand it! What the hell?
Animals aren't humans! If you are screwing a pig I think there is bigger issues going on with you than weather or not you can get married. For that matter Beastiality should fall under rape (since there is no way to prove the animal wants it) and everyone who does it should go to prision.
Bigamy is just the same! Marriage state that you will only be with one person, if you are married to more than one well that's aginest the law.
I'm tired of saying the same things over and over again. What really angers me is that everyone in the GLBTTTQ community doesn't support this bill. How fucked up is that? But let me leave you with one more question. If you are born male and become femal than you can marry a man and vise versa. Isn't that just the same as Gay Marriage. I'm not even talking about surgery or hormones or anything. if i said I was a girl and believed it. And presented myself as a girl. And called myself madison or something... Then I could marry a guy even though I am still physically a guy. Chew on that for awhile. |
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Nogrick
Everybody DANCE!
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Joined: 30 Sep 2002 |
| Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 8:16 pm Post subject: |
| Quote: | Quote:
Now if you say it does hurt you on a NON RELIGIOUS aspect then what does it violate? You're own homophobic tendencies is about all I can think of. Yeah you might feel uncomfortable with them around you, but there are also people who feel uncomfortable are white, blacks, asians, canadians, catholics, jews, muslims, and every thing else in the world. Hell my girlfriend can't stand dogs. So who is she to say that dogs can't marry? Or who is anyone to say that anyone can't get married. If we do see a ban on gay marrige, then I can see a society like in the book The Giver, where people are given a job and only some can be mothers. Partners are chosen for you by the gov't as is your job and every other aspect of you life.
For one, I'm not homophobic and it's starting to piss me off being generalized as that because I'm against this. I'm not against blacks but I hate a lot of rap music. And no, I don't feel uncomfortable around them. I've talked to a few over the past year or so, and it's not much different than talking to anyone else. It's not like they say 'that's fab' every few seconds or everything (Gogo Queer Eye for promoting stereotypes). |
Again, from a non religious aspect, tell me what gay marrige will violate. Our society has become more aware of the number of gay people and it is becoming a normal part of society. That's the reason we have QEFTSG and other shows. Because society as a whole accepts it and it is no longer a taboo. Meanwhile incest is still a taboo and in some places so is polygamy. When a large group of people rise up and want to marry their sister/brother/cousin, or four people, then good for them. I may not like it but that's not the point. When society starts accepting that kind of behavior they can get married all they want. Hell they could prolly get married right now if someone will let them. Good for them.
Being gay is no longer a taboo in our country so why ban gay marrige? Because some people are scared of what they don't know. They have no clue how gay people act and they are afraid of it. They have some odd feeling that if gays can marry then their sheltered little lives will be ruined. Just like when blacks and women and native americans and 18 year olds got the right to vote.
To me Kensei, you are taking an extreme side into what this debate is about. It isn't about religion and shouldn't be. It is about people and what we people of the Earth do and how we choose to do it. Not people of God, Allah, Buddha, The Essence, The Being or what ever. It is about us. And if you want to continue this crusade against people then go ahead. In this case, you are blinded by your religion, and need to look at this arguement detatched from your god.
Ain, I see your side too, and I agree with your quotes. What those people choose to do may not seem right to everyone, and every one has different beliefs. If you really believe that someone is a sinner, you must still love them.
And Kensei, I will read through Romans to find your arguement and when I find an answer, I will reply. |
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Reverend
I kin
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| Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2004 9:27 pm Post subject: |
Ain, the Bible tells us that homosexuality might be a sin, but that only holds validity if you are to take the bible literally. (Not entirely advised by the way, way too many contradictions that come up between the various books, which I'll work to produce for you later)
There are people who look at the bible as a collection of morality plays whose point is to give examples of how one might live a good life. Not to mention that from a purely anthropological standpoint, the Bible was written when the human race was trying to just barely survive. Every male HAD to procreate if humans were to stay around.
We don't really have that problem anymore. |
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